Whose on First?

Since it seems from Donna that the email lists aren't complete and some may have missed parts, I will attempt to put together a summary of the discussion to date.

This whole thing started with a simple and innocent email from Sheryl:
PS. I'm not talking politics much because the Iraq/Middle East situation is so depressing. I truly believe our President should be seeing a therapist. Several of the Democratic candidates really impress me. I like Obama's message. Richardson intrigues me too as a running mate.

Doug wrote:
We went to the Harkin steak fry on Sunday with an intimate crowd of about 15,000. All of the candidates except Kucinich were there. I was really impressed with Biden. He seems to have the best handle on foreign affairs. It was a great day to sit outside, drink some beer and listen to the politicos ramble on. The steak was mediocre but the atmosphere was electric.

To which Kris responded:
A part of me is so frustrated with the war situation that I'd like to bury my head for 5 years to get that behind us. Then a part of me shows up at peace rallies & displays Support the Troops /End the War signs. I'm a Hillary supporter at this point with my mind open. I could support any of them, but I think the most important opportunity is the one to vote for a woman. I have reservations, but no match would ever be perfect. I know Hillary has enemies, but anyone that has been doing significant things will have.

Then Donna piped in:
Yes, me too on Clinton. I guess I am saddened that there is no one who is bold on the issues – we Democrats seem to feel we have to take baby steps and the Republicans seem to take bold/brash steps and then back off. Bush is proving you don’t have to have anyone backing you to make a decision. Have to admire him for that or else he is incredibly arrogant. Excellent background article in the weekly Washington Post on the goings on behind the surge. He does an incredible job with molding and shaping public opinion. That is the biggest reason I fear to back Clinton – what slander and investigations will they come up with to bring her down? Guess fear is not a good reason to make a choice.

To which Dick stated:
But there are candidates who are bold on the issues. What issues exactly are you talking about? There are many bold positions; for example, how was the Clinton plan for health care not a bold proposal for government activism (and therefore defeated)? I would agree, fear is not a policy position on which to decide how to vote but do you not denigrate the intelligence of citizens by suggesting that President Bush is the cause of their opinions? Could we then not impugn your positions (although unstated) just as easily? As to slander and investigations (not clear, though, what this means), these of course have been the staple of politicians of all stripes for millennia. It would seem then that identifying the policies of good government upon which we would vet the candidates should be the foundation of our support and votes, not personalities. For instance, if you hate the war in Iraq, it would seem you need to come up with a viable policy to how to deal with evil in the world.

Sheryl, now do you see why you must never, never mention, politics in family e-mails?

Doug jumped in again:
You should always mention politics in family emails. There is nothing wrong with a good discussion especially when we have someone like Dick who can be depended on to point out any flaws (real or imagined) in our position.

Doris had a comment to this thread:
And Kucinich wasn’t invited. Not to happen in family discussions! Don’t hesitate – be bold. A woman can handle it and so can I.

At this point, I believe Doris posted the famous email that really got the ball rolling:
Hi- I figure this is my best and maybe last chance to vote for a qualified woman for President. Please join me and vote for Hillary Clinton! Her record demonstrates an ability to work across the aisle and to work with a diverse group of people building coalitions that solve problems. Her record exemplifies excellent long time work for raising the status of women not just nationally but also globally, and she has the intelligence and background to meet the complex challenges of international politics, peace making in the face of war, inner city poverty, etc. I am excited about this opportunity and I will not pass it up. She gets my vote!

And Dick's masterful response:
I'd be glad to consider it if you could tell me exactly how being a women has anything whatever to do with being qualified to be president of the US.

Here is my attempt to summarize the responses to the firestorm Doris and Dick created:

Doris responded:
Have you heard that famous quote from Young Frankenstein with Mel Brooks, Martie Feldman, Madeline Kahn, etc? Feldman as Igor – “My ol Daddy used to say”
Well, What did he say?
“Get the hell out of the bathroom and give somebody else a chance.”

Kris wrote:
Well, let's consider the opposite of that. There seems to be something about being a woman that prevents the consideration of women as candidate for president.

Gordy stepped up and stole my thunder:
Gender, Schmender. Hillary's the most qualified candidate, by far. Edwards, Biden, and Obama may be better able to articulate the best passionate liberal idea(l)s, but where are their political skills? In the '04 VP debate, Edwards got caught blindsided by Lon Cheney ("where were you in the Senate, Senator?"). If Edwards knew his stuff, he simply would have replied, "where were you in the Senate, Mr. Vice President? Your sworn constitutional duty is to preside over the Senate, but you were also absent plenty, and that is a violation of your oath of office."

Biden may also be passionately liberal, but what has he done for anyone lately? Barak is a heluvan orator and preacher, but where are his political accomplishments? Richardson? I would hope he could make it, but he's really poorly known. I can't even recall who the other runners are.

Granted, Republicans are not held to the same test. They can get away with all manner of shit. President Betrayus is a perfect Republican. But the Democrats have to pass this simple competency test of basic competence and intelligence.

Yes, Candidate Hillary would be in for one bloody fight, but she has taken plenty of hits, both from Republicans and from her husband. Can we say the same of any other Democrat? Are any of the other candidates really combat ready?

Jeff's thoughts on what matters:
I'm votin' Huckaby! He's from Arkansas, ain' 'e. That's all yer need ter know, ain' it

But seriously - He (Huckaby) did come across quite level headed in the Repub debate on Sunday Morning w/ George Stephanopoluos (sp?) a month back or so - if any of you saw it. And, no, put down your erasers to remove my name from your christmas list, I'm not voting Repub

I like that there are several dem candidates which have high interest vs. having to pick from the lesser of the evils - that seems to be the repubs lot this go around. Because of my interest and NOT knowing their qualifications -which I too believe is important - I plan on hitting some of the rally's as the candidates come to KC this year - I havent done so in the past.

Seen/ heard of any good presidential/political bumper snickers?

Kris agreed:
I'll agree that should be at the top of the list of desired qualifications.

Troy's bumper sticker vote:
Fav bumper sticker so far: Someone smart in '08

Deb responded to the original tease from Dick:
Because she is no worse (and in my opinion much better) as a candidate than any of the men, and because it is far past time for a major change in statecraft. I would vote for her on principle even if I did not believe she had superior views on most topics.

Troy jumped back in:
While not the #1 consideration, a valid consideration is expanding the talent pool and positively influencing the quality of political discussion 8, 16 and 24 years down the road. When Senator Howard, the senior senator from IA, is running for president in 2036, it will be beneficial to the country that we aren't distracted by debating whether a woman can make the decision to bomb some distant country.

This finally got Becky to plead for moving help (any candidates listening?):
Well, hell and damnation I do love this family! Senator Howard, huh, I don't know how she's ever gonna be qualified or electable with all that fire in the belly causing so much "hot air" to come out of her mouth...but maybe like fine metal she can be tempered. HA, NEVER!

I think the most serious issue facing Democrats in the upcoming election is not who is running for president, but who is voting! We (Democrats) have yet to truly turn out the vote in a consistent manner...oh we saw a touch of it with extreme measures during the last congressional cycle, but the Repubs have a tried and true machine that, I swear drives through the swamps and back alleys of every conservative town to bring out the votes. So I say it's not who's running, its who's voting! We've got to add some fire to this thing called the Democratic Party if it's going to make it up the hill of nonsense and distraction surely to be put out by the neo na...republicans.

But at this point in my move (to Scottsdale), I'd vote for anyone who will help me unpack the rest of my boxes and clean my old house...takers, takers?

This brings us to Donna trying to keep up with all the crossposts and keep things straight:
A problem – emails push us to short summaries of positions. Resulting in the possibility for misunderstanding and confusion. Most of us are reading widely and then coming to conclusions which we then pass on. Where are our sources? What are our basic assumptions/values/beliefs. Emails are only good for quick repartee and questions. Great stuff Dick’s question about a woman as President and the resulting responses. PEI will give us time and leisure to fill in the stuff that informs our opinions. But til then – hurray for the questions and responses.
Women are different – and do bring a different perspective and way of being in the world. Better? Well that could be much discussed – I concede that Arleon is better at a few things – chuckle.

Hey, Hey. Now can anyone organize this thing so I am sure it’s going to same list of everyone – it looks like we have a couple lists going so we don’t always send to full group. Am busy being busy this morning – reading two dozen of these things is great fun. Isn’t there such a thing as a blog or something where we all are in it all the time or something. From the oldest of the preelectroni c generation.


So here's my attempt to organize things. I don't even know if I have all the emails.

Comments?

steve